Sundial of world news

The subject is no longer taboo. According to information of the German weekly Der Spiegel revealed this Sunday, German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble would seriously consider bankruptcy of Athens, which could result in a departure from the country of the euro. While this information was then "denied by Germany," according to the Greek Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos, it comes as markets are increasingly skeptical about a rescue of Greece, whose economy continues to worse. To this must be added the recent publications of economists, who now publish the "fictions" about the abandonment of the euro in Athens.

Natixis economist Patrick Artus has decrypted this scenario in an analysis published Monday.Taking into account the levels of debt, public deficits and outside Greece, he felt that Athens should depreciate its currency by 55% to balance its accounts. For now, the country will wipe a deep recession "for the next 18 months." It is characterized by a drop in growth and "a sharp decline in purchasing power" due to inflation, a consequence of the devaluation ("with a surge in import prices by about 30%" ) and monetization of public debt as the deficit persists. Similarly, the bank UBS in a note published evoked early September at a cost of 9,500 to 11,500 euros per person the first year of a release of the European currency.

A scenario "imaginable" and "sustainable"

According to Patrick Artus, this bad patch should then be completed at the end of "two or three years," with a resumption of growth.But for Europe, the bill would be salty, since leaving the euro, Greece should convert its debt in its new currency. Which would cost banks and institutional investors in the euro area some 166 billion euros, according to the devaluation held by Natixis.

An output of the euro remains of Athens "imaginable" and "sustainable", argues Patrick Artus. However, "[he] would not attempt the coup," he insists, for fear that the markets get the idea that other countries in difficulty, in turn, leave the single currency. With online focus, Italy and Spain (under perfusion of the ECB through a program to purchase obligation), the output of the euro is, this time, "not at all imaginable, "given the size of their economies.

Public expenditure or fiscal austerity?

For the economist, only a policy of renewed growth in Greece would head out of the water."We must stop this hard to Athens on the reduction of the deficit, he loses his temper. We are killing the country. Instead of giving him three years to reduce its deficit, which gives him six, and that helps companies to find the path of growth and competitiveness. "

A view shared by economist Nouriel Roubini, calling to reactivate the lever of public spending on pain of falling into a "Great Depression". Tance but Jürgen Stark, the former chief economist of the ECB, for whom "a fiscal stimulus would only increase the level of debt and would therefore only increase those risks further." Whatever decision the euro area, it will in all cases act quickly to prevent the "taboo" from turning into disasters scenarios.

Dressed all in black, on Wednesday before members of the Bundestag, the Chancellor was in mourning for his father, who died Saturday. But visibly relieved after the decision of the judges of the Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe, the German chancellor had a big smile and great days of fighting to defend the euro. Reinforcing the federal government, the wise rejected on Thursday a complaint filed by German economists and a Conservative MP. This confirms the principle of aid promised by Berlin to combat the crisis in the euro area. But in exchange the Court ordered the government to involve Parliament more.

After wearing his cap red and getting up to announce a decision solemnly waited feverishly throughout Europe, the President of the Court Vosskuhle Andreas has removed one by one the arguments of the plaintiffs Eurosceptics.Or using in Athens in spring 2010 or the creation of the European emergency EFSF "do not violate Article 38 (of the German Constitution) the right to vote", and "neither sovereignty nor the fiscal room for maneuver future parliaments "have been compromised, he said. Known for their warmth towards Europe, the sages have therefore lifted the sword of Damocles hanging over the center-right government of Angela Merkel.

Advocacy for the euro and Europe

However, the game is not yet won for the Chancellor, who must bring together parliamentarians from the majority behind the new rescue plans for the euro area. Monday night, during a test vote, twenty-five members of the ruling coalition in Germany refused to support his bill to expand the powers of the European Financial Stability Fund (EFSF) which Germany has pledged more 200 billion euros.The rebel MPs are also opposed to new aid to Greece, they will also be asked to vote. Thanks to opposition voices, it was adopted by the Bundestag on September 29 is almost assured. But if his majority is lacking, the blow could be fatal to the coalition, Merkel could then be forced to call early parliamentary elections.

Thursday, Chancellor has therefore engaged in advocacy for the euro and Europe before the German MPs. "The Constitutional Court has absolutely confirmed" the path followed by Germany, it was welcomed. "We can not and will not let the failure of the euro," Merkel argued, reiterating that the future of Europe is at stake"If we are to avoid a major crisis in the western world (…), we need to fundamentally rethink everything," she said, adding that the accumulation of excessive debt for decades was the cause of the crisis. Marking the importance of the issue, Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble had gone in person in early July in Karlsruhe on behalf of the government argue the legality of the aid granted. The judges' decision "does not change the fact that decisions are difficult," he acknowledged Thursday, "but the debate on their compliance with the Constitution is over."

The Constitutional Court has in fact pointed out the powers of the Bundestag, which will give the green light "case by case for any aid of great importance." The Court held that the government has "the obligation to obtain clearance prior" to the budget committee of the Bundestag before making any commitment.No way also for Berlin to ratify agreements on a "community debt especially if it is linked to consequences difficult to predict," warned the judges. The idea of ​​creating common European obligations or "Eurobond" seems to finally buried the Rhine.

ALSO READ:

"The Assembly valid aid to Greece

»Greece: France" generous "and Germany" selfish "

The day after a session sharply higher on Wall Street and in Asia, the Paris market continues to rebound sharply on Tuesday after rising 2.2% Monday. At the opening, the benchmark index of the Bourse de Paris wins 1.22%, to 3192, 69 points. Yesterday on Wall Street indices ended the session up 2.2% for the Dow and the Nasdaq 3.3% driven by the consumption figures in the United States.

Asian markets followed suit with their American counterparts. In Tokyo, the Nikkei was up 1.22% to 8959.75 points while unemployment is again on the rise for the second consecutive month in July and that retail sales fell by 0.3% from June

The correct orientation of financial markets has boosted oil prices.Thus, the Asian markets, the Nymex is trading at 87.49 dollars, he finished in 87.27 dollars in New York, up $ 1.90 from Friday. Brent crude traded him to 112.17 dollars.

On the currency front, the euro continues to rise slightly against the greenback, moving always on top bar $ 1.45. At about 8 am in Paris, the European currency was worth 1.4528 dollars against 1.4510 dollars late Monday.

Fears about the health of banks

The day before, call to order by Christine Lagarde bound for European banks has prompted European leaders to defend the institutions of the old continent. "European banks are much better capitalized today than they were a year ago. This was confirmed by stress tests conducted in July, "assured the Commissioner of Economic Affairs Olli Rehn.

But on Tuesday, it was the turn of the International Accounting Standards Board (IASB) to throw fuel on the fire. The IASB believes that the provisions made by banks and European insurers about their exposure to Greek debt have been dumped, reports the Financial Times. According to the newspaper, BNP Paribas and CNP Assurances are particularly concerned by this risk. This does not prevent the two values ​​rose by 2.86% and 0.20%, to 35.38 euros and 12.35 euros.

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has also generally lowered its economic growth forecasts for 2011 and 2012, leaving unchanged the forecast of Germany for the current year no checking account payday advance.

Still on macroeconomic indicators will be out today.Before trading, the markets did not take umbrage at the publication of a fall, but strong early sales of new homes in the second quarter in France. Are expected, however carefully in mid-day details of business failures, the business climate and economic sentiment in the eurozone. Overseas, the index of consumer confidence, the housing (Case-Shiller) and the minutes of the last Fed meeting will also facilitate the session.

Arcelor-Mittal is growing in Australia

On the corporate side, Arcelor-Mittal (1.60% to 14.58 euros) is about to take control of Australia's Macarthur, world's largest producer of pulverized coal, in association with the American Peabody Energy . The tender offer made by the European steel amounts to 5.16 billion dollars.Macarthur's management finally yielded to the new offer revised upwards by the Arcelor-Peobody tandem: it is 16 Australian dollars (11.8 euros) per share, against A $ 15.50 earlier.

The semi-annual publications are now many, especially among heavyweights rating. Note that the Y real, Havas, Bouygues, Colas, Vinci, Bollore, NRJ Group and Devoteam detail their half-year after the market closes.

In addition, Ipsen (6.12% to 23.50 euros) announced revenues up 5.3% in the first half.He also announced an upward adjustment of its sales forecast for 2011 in favor of a less pronounced decline than expected sales in general practice.

The French shipowner CMA-CGM said that 2011 should be "a good year" for the group, claiming to have already funded the bulk of its investments for 2011 and 2012. The company said to have $ 1.7 billion (1.17 billion euros) in cash at the end of June, July and have paid $ 550 million bond line, while press reports evoked ago few weeks of possible cash flow problems.

ALSO READ:

"The Cac 40 erases its losses the last two sessions

"Wall Street continues its rebound

Shortly before opening, the U.S. stock markets were slightly higher initial approached on Monday. The index futures Standard & Poor's 500 and Nasdaq 100 advanced in effect 0.79% respectively at 1132.40 points from 0.98% to 2061 points, while the Dow Jones was also expected to rise by 0.6 % to 10,885 points.

The slight rebound, which may occur after a further sharp fall on Wall Street last Friday and in the wake of European markets focused more on Monday morning, should not be thwarted, at least in the short term, by some macroeconomic indicators whatsoever. In fact, no statistics major is expected on Monday to the United States. Only the index of manufacturing activity in the Chicago Fed is on the menu, at 14:30.

It will take until Tuesday to learn about sales figures for new homes, from 16 hours.Wednesday, the agenda will grow a bit, with durable goods orders for July and the weekly inventory of crude oil to the United States. Thursday, things become more serious with the weekly jobless claims, always eagerly awaited by investors on the lookout for any sign of weakness, or, conversely, improvement in U.S. growth.

Threats to U.S. growth

But the appointment will most certainly expected the intervention, Friday, Ben Bernanke, chairman of the Federal Reserve (Fed), some investors are hoping a third easing able to restart the engine stopped the world's largest economy.This day will be both detailed, the second estimate of U.S. gross domestic product for the second quarter, and the index of consumer confidence for August.

Markets, even if they are experiencing very high volatility, and may still show, at the same time, some caution, pending the decision of the Fed on Friday. Especially as the threats to the outlook for U.S. growth accumulates. After Morgan Stanley and Citigroup, JP Morgan Chase lowered its estimates, in turn, growth in the U.S. economy. The Bank of New York discusses risk "clearly raised" a recession, while growth prospects for the third quarter were for their slightly smaller than before.The U.S. GDP growth for the fourth calendar quarter is now expected at a rate of 1% against +2.5% previously.

Vice President Joe Biden, on an official visit to China, but probably a little appeased the spirits, reaffirming this weekend at the first creditors of the country they could rely on the strength of the U.S. Treasury.

Values ​​to follow

The uncertainty is compounded room at the international level, by the events in Libya. The fall of Colonel Qaddafi, found, became clearer Monday morning, prompting oil companies to return to the values ​​of the colors. However, perhaps more in Europe than the United States. Neither Chevron (%), or ExxonMobil (+%) are actually active in the extraction of oil in Libya. These values ​​could still respond to changes in oil prices.Oil prices retreated on Monday morning.

On the corporate side, the internet telephony group Skype also announced Sunday an agreement to acquire Me Group, a provider of mobile messaging services to targeted groups. Registered in Luxembourg, the company Skype was founded in 2003 and became the world leader in Internet telephony. She is currently being acquired by Microsoft U.S. computer group (-2.51% Friday closing).

German growth disappoints economists. The country announced on Tuesday, an initial estimate, an increase of 0.1% of GDP in the second quarter against a 0.5% increase expected by observers. This is a lowest since the first quarter of 2009.

In one year, growth stood at 2.8%, a performance is still below the 3.2% forecast. The previous quarter, the German economy had grown 1.3% a quarter over quarter and 5% year on year. These figures themselves have been subject to a downward revision, having been originally announced respectively 1.5% and 5.2%.

This result is partly due to the disappointing performance of foreign trade, yet strength of the German economy. The trade surplus narrowed to 11.5 billion euros against 12.8 billion in May. Economists had forecast 13 billion.Imports were further advanced in June by 0.3% while economists were betting on a decline in the same order. Exports, they, down 1.2% over the same period after growing 4.4% in May

With orders up to industry

Industrial production also fell 1.1% in June, surprising economists who had expected an increase of 0.1%. The figure for May was also revised downward, the increase being reduced from 1.2% to 0.9%. The Ministry of Economy said that the month of June was characterized by an unusually high number of long weekend, which has affected production. He also noted that industrial production remained on a positive trend, driven by a high level of orders.

These have in fact increased by 1.8% in June, against a 0.5% decline expected.But the figures show a slowdown in domestic demand after rising by more than 10% in May, has dropped significantly in June (-10.8%), while orders from abroad have experienced an opposite trend with an increase of 13.7% in June after a 5.8% decline the previous month. Finally, wholesale sales fell 0.6% in July compared to June

"Private consumption and investment in construction slowed the German economy in the second quarter," said the Statistical Office, without giving details. Confident, the German finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble still hopes for 2011 "growth above 3%."

The anxiety begins to rise in the staffs of distributors. Since last May, in response to rising prices in hypermarkets and supermarkets, French households scratch some products of their shopping list. In late February, the central purchasing of hypermarkets and supermarkets had completed, in pain, their traditional annual tariff negotiations with food manufacturers and consumer products. They had had great difficulty in getting the increases they felt were necessary, given the soaring prices of raw materials.

Since March, distributors impact gradually increases on their labels. That month, prices in stores were up 0.67% over February, according to the institute Symphony IRI Group. Since then, a month to month, prices increase in radius each time by 0.50%."The return of inflation is beginning to be felt on the behavior of buyers in supermarkets," says Jacques Dupré, Director of Insight Symphony IRI Group, which analyzes the monthly receipts of all the major surfaces of the Hexagon .

The break in the trend is clear. Of the four months preceding the return of inflation on the shelves between November 2010 and February 2011, sales of food increased by 1.3%. And the next three months, between March and May, the increase slowed to only 0.4%.

Promotional pressure

In April, the phenomenal sales of water, beverages, beer and ice cream, boosted by high temperatures, have allowed supermarkets to record an exceptional increase their volumes, which jumped this month to 4 3% compared to April 2010. But since May, purchases in supermarkets are falling over one year.Month after month, the trend continues. "In July, the decline could even exceed 1%, says Jacques Dupré. Inflation continues to gain momentum. "

The drop in purchases is certainly less intense than in 2008. At the time, soaring raw materials led to an increase of 4.5% of the labels in three months, which had resulted in a decline in overall consumption of around 2% throughout the year, twice as large as that observed in the last three months.

"So far, arbitration is more about quantity than quality, said Jacques Dupré. Rather than falling in line, they buy a little less product. "As in 2008, consumers are tightening their belts.But they give up to afford one or two products "frivolous" (see box) rather than turn to the variety of entry-level or private labels (PLs) for items they value.

Despite the general rise in prices, domestic brands continued to be more resilient than labels distributor, yet less expensive. Until May, growth was consistently higher, thanks to promotions, which have proliferated in the first half.

Promotional pressure from national brands was released in June … and then returned to the private label market share for the first time in eighteen months. The situation remains tense rays than ever, and inflation could thus give a boost to brands.Contrary to what happened three years ago, the hard discount does not benefit from inflation and continues to lose market share.

ALSO READ:

"Fruits and Vegetables: angry producers

"Agricultural commodities regain ground

"French growth stopped in its tracks

The penalty was expected but it still sounds like a shock. In the night from Friday to Saturday, the rating agency Standard and Poor's (S & P) has dared to lower the rating for government debt of the United States, and deprived of their "AAA" for the first time in history . S & P said in a statement it had degraded to the next level this note, the best possible, to bring it to 'AA +'. It also lowered its outlook to "negative", which means that Standard and Poor's believes that the next time the note will change, it will be to be devalued again. The United States were rated "AAA" by S & P since the creation of this agency in 1941.They remain in the other two major agencies, Moody's Dean (since 1917) and Fitch Ratings.

Standard and Poor's, which had warned in April that it was considering lowering, justified its decision with "political risks" to see the country taking insufficient measures against its budget deficit. For her, the political debate on these issues is not up to the problems caused by a debt of more than 14,500 billion. "The plan for balancing the budget on which Congress and the Executive have recently agreed is insufficient compared to what, in our view, would be needed to stabilize the dynamics in the medium term public debt" said S & P, citing the law known as "control the budget" passed Tuesday.

S & P is the second rating agency to downgrade the American note, after the Chinese – less powerful – Dagong.Other – mostly American and French Moody's Fitch – are currently at Triple A.

The U.S. public debt to more than 100% of GDP

The first power of the world is, well, so sure before. The United States and joined Japan, Spain and Ireland have lost that status envied no fax payday loan. The loss of this seal of excellence is expected brutal impact on the financial markets, difficult to imagine right now. But while the financial world is upside down, the risk that markets continue to dive is high. The announcement of S & P comes in effect when the markets were closed for the weekend, closing on both sides of the Atlantic one week black.

China, by far the world's largest creditor United States, found that she had "every right now to require the United States to address their structural problems of debt."Second World holder of U.S. debt, Tokyo assured him that his confidence in the U.S. Treasury and its strategy of purchasing these bonds were unchanged. In France, the Minister of Economy Baroin reiterated his "total confidence in the strength of the U.S. economy."

Two days ago, the U.S. debt has passed a symbolic milestone. Because it exceeded the threshold of 100% of GDP, just after raising the debt ceiling by Congress. The United States saw their public finances sealed by the harsh recession that crossed their economy from late 2007 to mid-2009. Since then, economic growth has returned, but they are not able to restore the health of their public finances. According to estimates by the International Monetary Fund, they should acknowledge this year, with about 9% of GDP, the highest budget deficit of the G20 countries, except Japan.It is sixteen countries rated "AAA" by Standard and Poor's, four of the G7: Germany, Canada, France and Great Britain.

(With AFP and Reuters)

ALSO READ:

"Why the threat of recession resurfaced

"The world as seen by the rating agencies

"The agency Fitch confirmed the triple-A U.S.

"The U.S. debt above 100% of GDP

In the aftermath of a black day on world financial markets, U.S. equity markets begin this Friday on a stable note. In early trade, the Dow gained 0.03% to 11,387 points, the Nasdaq is 1.01% more frankly to 2582 points and the S & P up 0.82% to 1211 points. The markets resume with the publication of unemployment figures across the Atlantic for the better than expected in July.

Wall Street follows the movement promoted by the European stock exchanges. In Paris, the political mobilization against the bear market in Europe has slowed the drop in European indexes.

The employment figures dictate trend

In this context the assumption of a recession in the U.S. or the world, is today one of the main fears of the markets, the announcement of a significant improvement in job creation last month calm spirits on Wall Street.In recent weeks, disappointing publications on the state of the U.S. economy had, in fact, chained, challenging the idea of ​​resumption of the world's largest economy. This publication confirms the figures released Wednesday by ADP, reports of more new jobs than expected for the month of July.

At 21 hours the numbers of U.S. consumer credit for the month of June will end this week full of macroeconomic data.

Oil and euro pressure

Oil prices climbed hesitantly at the opening Friday in New York, despite the employment figures better than expected, as the market wondered if it would be sufficient to support the demand for crude in a very fragile economic environment .On the New York Mercantile Exchange (Nymex), a barrel of "light sweet crude" for September delivery was trading at 87.04 dollars, up 41 cents from the previous day.

This concern also weighs on the currency front, the euro was trying to rebound against the dollar but remained under pressure from macroeconomic concerns.To 15 hours in Paris, the European currency was worth 1.4224 dollars against 1.4106 dollars on Thursday night, after falling to 1.4055 dollars in early Asian trade, its lowest for three and a half weeks fast cash online.

AIG, GM and Procter & Gamble publish their accounts

On the corporate side, the semi-annual publications still dominate the news on Friday.

Thursday evening after market, the insurer AIG (-0.23% to 26.34 dollars) announced a return to the green of its accounts in the second quarter, with net earnings of $ 1.84 billion over the period, against a loss of $ 2.7 billion a year earlier. Per share, net income totaled $ 1 ($ 0.69 after tax, against $ 0.92 expected by analysts).

At the same time, and its first quarterly since its IPO on May 19, LinkedIn (-2.27% to 93.36 dollars) was positively surprised markets by announcing a turnover more than doubled the second quarter to 121 million dollars (120 euros) and net profit (4.5 million), where analysts expected a loss.

GM Motors (1.27% to 26.32 dolars) Thursday reported quarterly results exceeded expectations, with a near doubling of profits over the period.

Procter & Gamble (1.78% to 60.64 dollars) released before market on Friday for the fourth quarter of fiscal offset, net income up 15% to $ 2.51 billion.Of 2010-2011, so it shows a net profit of 11.79 Annual Statement billion, down 7% from the previous year.

Viacom (3.55% to 53.17 dollars), the parent company of MTV and Comedy Central, has reported a rise than expected in earnings thanks to strong revenue growth in advertising Cable and license agreements with websites. Its quarterly results (Q3) increased to $ 574 million against 432 million

Bank of America (1.70% to 8.98 dollars) is highly exposed to the most fragile countries in the euro zone, according to a document from the bank. The group said exposure to the tune of $ 16.7 billion (11.8 billion euros) in total to Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain in June 30Management has indicated in a document submitted to the regulatory authorities that its losses could reach up to legal $ 2.3 billion in addition to the provisions already passed for this purpose.

The wiretapping scandal that is the empire of the waver media magnate Rupert Murdoch could seriously undermine the financial health of News Corp.. The rating agency Standard & Poor's has placed under surveillance the note of media group, currently BBB +. Investors welcomed this decision: As News Corp, which lost 4.32% yesterday even on Wall Street rebounds on Tuesday morning at the Sydney Stock Exchange, gaining 2.75% in mid-session.

Standard & Poor's is concerned about "the increased risk associated with the activities and reputation (the group) while the legal extend." The financial consequences of the scandal is already heavy for News Corp, which had to abandon his flagship project of redemption of all of the satellite channel BSkyB.And the rating agency believes that a tarnished reputation "may scare off customers or future, to lose opportunities and divert attention from the leaders." Now that reputation has been affected by "the amplification of the legal proceedings in Britain and the pressure from U.S. lawmakers for an FBI investigation," said the rating agency before turning to the resignations and the convening of several leaders for a hearing by the British Parliament on July 19.

In addition, the group management may be altered. According to Bloomberg, the Board would discuss the replacement of Rupert Murdoch as head of the group, despite the support the manager confirmed yesterday by a director, Tom Perkins.The Wall Street Journal yesterday, the CEO and founder of News Corp is considering himself to let go of the reins of his company for more than a year, giving way to Chase Carey, the current chief operating officer of group. The departure of Rupert Murdoch has also become a struggle for the collective LulzSec hackers, who hijacked last night a page of the website of Sun, directing users to a hoax article-which announced the death of the boss of News Corp.

ALSO READ:

"Scandal Plays: Brooks arrested in London

"Murdoch Cameron leads in turmoil

"The Sun's website was hacked

Carrefour and its major shareholders still have progress to make to master the subtleties of samba. The merger of the Brazilian subsidiary of global distributor with the second casino, Grupo Pao de Acucar (GPA), is abandoned.

Scaffold for months in the back of its local partner Casino Abilio Diniz (President and owner of 21% of GPA), with the support of BNDES, the Brazilian equivalent of the Deposit, the project would have allowed Crossroads take control of all activities involving the two Brazilian groups. The company, known as Pao de Acucar Novo, would have made 30 billion euros in sales and held 32.3% of the local market, against 11.1% for the U.S. WalMart.

Las.The latter, entered the capital of the retailer in March 2007, when the action was worth 53 euros, have increased the project, or attempted to bounce the stock price, which dropped by half since: sale of Brazilian and Chinese subsidiaries , public offerings of real estate branch, split Dia. In vain.

Brazil lost the battle has also cast a cruel light on the performance of Carrefour in the country, its first growth opportunities ahead of China payday advance lender. Abilio Diniz revealed that the operating profitability of Carrefour Brazil was 1%, seven times less than that of GPA. Casino and pointed the loss of market share of hypermarkets in Brazil, for the benefit of supermarkets and convenience stores.If its chain of wholesale stores Atacadao is a success, Carrefour, local leader, sees its hypermarkets suffer against those of Extra, a subsidiary of ABM.

Overconfidence

After 550 million of provisions recorded by Carrefour last year as a result of accounting fraud at its Brazilian subsidiary, the latter saw his image tarnished again. The withdrawal of the BNDES also shows that Carrefour had underestimated the political power relations in Brazil, or too trusted Abilio Diniz …

If new proposed combination with GPA must be submitted to the board of Carrefour in the coming months, it would still be opposed to casino, and no political support in Brazil. This time, the independent directors of Carrefour might well make their voices heard.